wet carpets or dry in 1 hr

Now that i have made up my mind to push pad capping 90% or if i might loose a sale over method i will drag out the hoses. My tag line has been i love empties and now it will be i hate hoses. To me it is so much easier cleaning with a pad machine. and talk about a lower overhead over using a tm.

I do agree, it is nice avoiding the hoses, but doing it right takes time and isn't all that easy. By the time you crb it, FULLY vacuum, treat spots, run pads over it, then run bonnets over it to extract, groom, and final vacuum....you have committed a good deal of time and effort to the process. What about gum, stairs, etc.?

My advice is for VLM cleaners to forget about residential and only target commercial in areas where truckmounts aren't likely to compete. VLM can make a carpet look good, but I have never felt that it makes a carpet as healthy as with HWE.

On residential and commercial like day cares and schools, it is the health aspect that matters the most and not just appearance.

I don't mean to discourage your plans, go with what works for you and make millions if you can, but there are more start-up competition using VLM than any other method. So, be prepared to fight throat cutters who will bid jobs at rates that doesn't even pay for the gas to the job-site.

A former boss once gave me the advice that if a job is easy to do, they will not pay you to do it for very long. A lot of property managers have witnessed VLM in person and have started doing it on an in-house basis with their own staff. Tough to fight that unless you go the extra mile in your process.

Now that I became a wet blanket, let me throw out an idea. Go with VLM, but add a high flow extractor like the Steamin Demon to the equation. The only hoses you have are about 25 feet of garden hose in the building where you are cleaning. It keeps your quality at a very high level while ditching the TM pita factor and costs.

vlm is also very cut throat around here and a low valued service in the eyes of the residential customer.

many many many guys doing it on weekends and after work, most are groupon deals.

To someone with a 9-5 and 2k to invest they can make an extra 75-100 bucks a day doing 2 jobs after work or make some money on a saturday.

I did vlm for 15 years. Some jobs turned out, some didn't. It was the "didnts" that turned me to the dark side(or is it the other way around?)
Still find myself on some jobs, wishing i had buffer and some pads.
Peter, find your nitch, make it work the best for you.

Exactly Matt, everyone has to follow their own design. If it is VLM, great, just make sure it is because you believe in it and prefer it over just seeing it as being easier.

VLM can cause a lot of cleaners to get lazy and they are the ones that can't sustain themselves very long. The method works, and in the hands of someone who does it the right way, it can work very well. You just have a lot of "water heads" out there not doing it the right way and thinking they found the perfect dodge.

Those people, will be your competition charging beer money to clean.

Oh, and about the title of the post....you can achieve 1-2 hour dry times with wet cleaning as well these days. Encaps have improved by leaps and bounds and so has the water recovery on TM units.

How you market your system and self will be the key....with emphasis on the self part.

No argument it does take more time cleaning with vlm than hwe but i am finding clients calling for their spring cleaning and me explaining the vlm method having no open doors windows they are wanting their cleaning done sooner than later. I am one of many pushing the green cleaning and finding the no odors sells itself.
This industry is seeing a full circle now that improved encapsulation has come to the forefront
As far as rinsing yes a pad dipped in water run over the carpet will work but will take alot of pads If you are saying dry pad & carpet unless you are checking with a moisture probe i maybe wrong we set airpaths thru out jobs that need fast drying and i wont say the pad is 100% dry in 2 hrs.

The part I didn't like; washing padsall the time, even in between jobs cuz I didn't have enough for the next job. Explaining it to customers; and seeing in their expression"snakeoil?".
Many customers had lite soiled carpets and I could clean them and dryfast. Avg to avg+ soiled... Pita! As my business transitioned to rentals and comm... A TM was for me. Most of my residential customers fell by the wayside.
It comes down to satisfying the customer. Making it as convenient as possible to them.

I had the same experience as Matt, being the new guy in town I was cleaning trashed rentals mostly and struggled with VLM. At one point, I was cleaning 40 bonnets each night and had to replace them monthly....just didn't work for me compared to dumping a tank.

I agree with sub par results with a vlm system. The inprovements in the encap formula and using orbital machines i have seen great results and happy customers with ready to walk on carpets.And yes i am cleaning pads every nite and have many.
Sometime try a woolbly pad on a wool carpet or rug amazing gental scrubbing and great absorbtion. Today had to order 2 transfer pumps for the cds and prochem gt $$ ouch

Peter, I agree what Matt said up there, whatever floats your boat, however if it takes the same amount of time or may be longer to do VLM with less $$, I don't see it being profitable ? Also the parts for TM are expensive and I'm sure it's a huge expenses from time to time but the extra time needed to wash the pads as well as the soap needed to wash those pads kinda balanced the TM parts cost ?
I've never done VLM however I heard great stories from Dave and some Jon don's employees at the expo, they were saying it's good to give customers option, but they also are saying the encapsulate ( not sure if it's the same with what you're talking about in this thread ? ) is able to do up to 15000 sq ft / hr, that's crazy high productivity rates.

I have never experienced those high productivity rates that the industry claims. If you are just running a Cimex around by itself with scrub pads...then I can see it, but I don't think that is really "cleaning" either.

I used to follow the Cimex with an Orbot with bonnets to remove the soil. Factoring the second machine kills those productivity rates by man hours. Then if you actually go back and vacuum following (you should be), that is cleaning the same size space twice....again productivity rates negated.

That being said, I might have to buy me a Cimex again as there may be some encap work ahead of me this Summer on commercial....need to have options, but also need to be realistic on its potential.

Matt; My carpet cleaner wrote:.............
It comes down to satisfying the customer. Making it as convenient as possible to them.

I believe the same.

And I almost always feel better and have more confidence in HWE.  But there are those times, usually in Condos and some commercial offices where a TM just won't reach, even with 300" of hose, or just simply isn't practical.  That's when I'll do VLM cleaning, if possible.
If they're looking at you like you're selling "snake oil", then maybe possible you're over explaining it?........just a hunch.

I think it's a nice back up for me, when the TM just isn't doable.
Would a try to restore a urine soaked carpet with VLM?, no way!!..........it does have it's limitations.

Last year 2014 my gas bill for the year with 2 tms was 38000.00 i wont mention a rebuilt transmission 1700.00 tires ect.. 2015 with 2 tms. around 16000.00 for gas and the vlm mini van around 4200.00 I do live in a very rural state and with a small population you do have to travel to stay busy. Not saying vlm is the golden egg of clean and for removing contamination a tm would be the king and i will drag out the hose"s
I should not have said easy it put Milspec6 skiveys in a knot i should have said smarter LOL
Milspec6 before buying another cimex step it up for a larger and faster orbit the grumpy and the freedom retired my 2 cimex"s

VLM definitely has a lot of benefits thats why it in my tool box.

Milspec wear skiveys

Okay, I guess the term "easy" did set of alarms in my head.  I lost a pretty good sub to the dark side a couple of years ago and that was his story...."it is so much easier to just scrub and go".  It still irritates me.

As for the Cimex, you have my attention.  I am trying to land a contract for a 40,000 sqft event hall for bi-annual cleanings and I really don't want to bring in a lot of help to get it down in the same night.  So, the encap system just might have to re-visited.

Which machine would you recommend specifically?

Ron my brother rented a cimex and his local supplier and loved the results at a library he cleans. Think he paid 50/day for it. Just experiment with the different juices

$ 38 grand ?? Damn that's a LOT !! I spent close to 20 grand a year here in LA for 2 vans ( not full time running throughout the year though ), more like one and a half.
Peter have you tried using premium gas ?? I used to spend over 20 grand and after using premium gas, we saved a couple thousand in a year, it increases gas mileage and the TM runs better and less problem overall with the van and TM cause the motor runs cleaner.

Mo wrote:Ron my brother rented a cimex and his local supplier and loved the results at a library he cleans. Think he paid 50/day for it. Just experiment with the different juices

I really wish I could find somewhere to rent one for that around here!

Matter for fact, just be able to rent one for any amount really....a couple years ago when I needed one, I called all over the LA area and couldn't find anyone that rented one.

The way i see it if you can't find 1 to rent ( cimex ) that a land lord or pm can"t get their hands on without an investment i would call the co. that does have one has a nitch in their tool box.
As for a real labor saving orbital i would look at the grumpy that will also extract. for commercial residential i find the borg with weight set to do very well.

That price on that grumpy makes me grumpy

Mo look at it as an investment. It will turn a huge sq. ft. amount job using just 1 man unless you want another man to change out pads. LOL!!!