OP (Oscillating) Machines

Have these OP machine manufactures gone overboard with the increase in pricing of these machine? When I first started you could pick up a new OP machine for $1200-$1500.00 and now the Orbot and Trinity are selling for over $4000.00. I can't compare an OP machine to a 175 because I've never used a swing machine but there a few cleaners that have gone back to swing machines.

Philip and Andy have gone back to 175s.  Philip why are you selling your OP machine. It looks like it's in great shape.

I've thought about switching back as well. I only went op due to the mills sudden dislike of 175's on carpet. That orbot still folds and fits in between the front seats, but that is probably the only advantage I see now.

Well, it is safer to techs to use who don't have experience operating swinger.

Don't get me wrong my Orbot purchase has been the best ROI on equipment that I have made but wondering why the price have risen so much.

They are all not the same. My Challenger was a smaller 15 in machine. It was more relaible but a little tougher to maneuver because it was a wheels off the ground machine but it sure did a good job of scrubbing some carpet.

The Orbot looks cool and with the wheels on the ground it's pretty easy on the back. I had to fight the Challenger sometimes. But the Orbot hasn't been as reliable. You have to replace the pad driver once or twice a year.  I replaced the counter balance once. Of course the velcro driver needs to be replaced as well.

Do know much about the Low Boy, Trinity, or Mini Max.

I guess you could say I was raised on a rotary machine. I started out in carpet cleaning using the Ultra Dry system from Chemmax. (Same company that took over the manufacturing of the Workmaster truckmount)

I always was happy with the results I got using a 300 rpm rotary. 175 to me is just too slow. 300 really makes a difference.

With all the talk about OP machines I just had the itch to try one. I guess I thought I was missing out. But after using it for a while now, I just don't get all the hype. It does fine cleaning, but I don't think it's any better than the 300 rpm rotary. The rotary has a lot of advantages as well. It's quieter and smoother, it's more versatile, and it allows you more pad choices. Tuways and microfibers are great on a rotary, not so much with the OP. Plus in wide open commercial areas, the high speed rotary can really move along.

I'm not bashing OP machines, they do just fine cleaning. I just think they're a bit over-hyped to be honest.

So, I think I'll sell my defender to someone whos more comfortable with them and go back to my roots.

So you feel that your rotary cleaned just as well as the OP just a little slower?  Are swing machines easier on the back than OP machines with wheels on the ground?

Actually, no. The 300 rpm rotary is faster than the OP.

They're about the same on the back. The rotary is effortless to move once you have it in the house.

Very interesting Philip thanks for the feedback.

You got it Mo.

I have about three hour experience behind both machines. Like you Mo I feel the same about the CRB. I have a hard time buying into the hype of equipment. That's why I take a long time before I purchase these types of equipment. Save a lot on equipment turn over too.

Great topic. I'll be watching this one to learn some more.

What ya got for us Ken Raddon, Terry?

For you guys interested in a CRB just get a walmart bissel.. and pull out the suction hose. Make sure the carpet hieght is set to bare floor and your jaw should drop.   ( make sure the carpet is already pre sprayed of course )

Or if doing only VLM leave it connected then do a post vac.

Though I dont have a whole lot of experience with OP I will put my thoughts in :
You will use 1/4 the amount of pads per job using a swing.
You can haul major cha ching per/hour in most cases vs an OP.
Cord managment is way easier with a swing.
You only need 1 pad driver for the life of your carpet career.
They are quite.
They are heavy and not fun to take up stairs in apartment complexs. This may be the only thing OP has over swing machines.
There are 100's of pad choices available.
The nicest on the market for under a $1000
No Tip bloom
No pads folding up
No glides
Swing machines dont break.. almost ever.. many machines are are still running out there after 20 years with zero problems.

I used a rotory 175 swing machine for a few years then bought into the jiggler a.k.a. oscillating machine hype and went back to the 175 for low moisture cleaning. I can encap or bonnet clean or clean wood floors with the same machine.

Gentlemen and ladies considering a swing machine over a jiggler should start with a swing machine and if you find yourself lacking in what your machine can do you can always sell a swing machine easier than a jiggler. But I doubt you'll ever sell it until you upgrade to a newer machine.

i had monster jobs lined up at the end of december and both my orbot AND cimex went down...
bad bearing on the bot and a pad driver wrecked on the cimex so had to go back to my 20" tennant rotary for tons of sq.

It was enjoyable actually.

The last time I cleaned with rotary and encap was prochem prochaps. The terrible terrible product that resoiled like mad. So, with these newer encaps the job was surprisingly quick and turned out great!

I will NEVER buy another orbot for the $ they are asking. Never.
Especially when I talked to Jeff about how to make an actual good pad driver and he couldn't make it work and one one of my bots I have had it working for a quite a while  

Well stated Dustin, I would agree with you. I can't say that I regret buying the orbit, but I would not buy another these days.

I would miss the folding ability...too bad no swingers use a folding handle and base...that would be a winner.

Many floor machines are imported ( not all) and compete on price. Since they have no outstanding feature they become a commodity and a price war is the outcome. One way to look at it is how does that work for carpet cleaners when they just compete on price alone? Everyone looses. A small shop like Bonnet Pro does things differently. I have cleaned for almost 30 years so I build them like I would want to use them. No 2cent wire connectors we use the 35 cent heat shrink with glue types. No zinc plated hardware, its stainless. Our powder coat is done in 2 layers over aluminum with a layer of clear baked on top. All of these hard to spot details raise the cost but like a fine car offer better performance. So the more important question is does the extra investment pay off? Is a more expensive machine more enjoyable to wheel in to the customers location? Does it look better longer and offer the owner a higher satisfaction of ownership? And maybe more importantly what is your customers perception of your equipment and what it says about you.

I'm glad you came on and reminded me that my next machine will be a bonnet pro.

Me too!

Hey John I could have used the Carpet MAX on the 7k of carpet I cleaned today. Not really it was a lot of offices but I would have hummed through the halls and the bigger rooms. That thing is a beast

speaking of the mini max what changes do you have planned for the new model mentioned on your site?

I prefer the oscillating to the rotary. Even pressure on the floor. Plus, with a rotary, at 175 rpm, its only going 175 rpm about 2" from the outside of the pad/bonnet. 4" from center is basically worthless.

I've tested microfiber bonnets on CGD and a 175 wears them out much faster than my Orbot.

I always thought though, that the huge bonnet pro machine would be stupid awesome if it were oscillating instead of rotary.

CleanTech wrote:speaking of the mini max what changes do you have planned for the new model mentioned on your site?

The new motor will be a 10 to 1 and run cooler with 40% more stall torque. So it will be more powerful and offset a little more forward for better weight distribution. It will also most likely spin at 220 rpm.. The spray system will be the same but it will now have an entirely new set up for the tank and removable storage. This will give better clearance, visibility and yield less weight on the handle with a lower center of gravity. The solution tank and removable storage are on an axle so when you raise the handle or lower it they are always in the upright position. It will also have 4 lifting handles. Two on the chassis and two at different heights on the handle. the machine shown is a very rough prototype.

BonnetPro,

Particular reason you stick with rotary vs oscillation?

I have always been a rotary guy. The are quite and very reliable. The offer total freedom of movement in any direction instead of just up and back and they can use any bonnet or fiber pad. OP must have a single layer or center stitched bonnet.

Specifically your Max. I've always thought that it would be the ultimate machine if it was OP vs rotary. After all, doesn't it just go back and forth?

I'm impressed with your build quality. I wish people would quit buying garbage from China.

Of course, if cimex would make a Max type machine, Wow!, that would be awesome! Maybe 13" pads instead of 8".

Nice thread kids.