Low Moisture Cleaning is just surface cleaning

You want to select the best for the the job and your profit. WAY TO MANY cleaners get in the pissing war of mine is better then yours. And while they are arguing they forget they are running a business and need to please the customer while achieving maximum profits. We mostly truck mount extracted for years now we mostly LM. However if I had a very greasy restaurant I might extract it rather then pad it, why? because it might be faster then swapping out many pads and therefor less time consuming and more profitable.
However that most likely would not apply to long halls or even many residential jobs, if those jobs where suitable for LM, not cat urine jobs or other jobs like that.

Im surprised you don't see more info on the boards of how to run a job more efficiently to earn a higher profit per hour. Now that would be worth disusing.

I like both methods, we do mostly TM but I think VLM is a million times better than hauling a portable, and actually have been surprised by what it can handle. Simple and easy.

But

This is why I am not able to sell as many residential customers on it.....

1. I dont have the breath day in and day out to go through all these explainations when someone has already sold them on HWE, I dont have the time or energy nor do I want to spend time to convince them.

2. Most of our residential cleanings are actually pretty clean carpet, they get it done frequently and many many of these homes are "shoes off" homes, which we've found is becoming more and more common.

so in a shoes off, not so dirty home what are the pads going to look like? you tend to see more than you would expect but also not every dirty.....

so when the customer is getting a cleaning to stay sanitized, and have dust mites, skin cells, etc removed, and they see you spinning a pad around "smearing" --(in their mind)

our experience the perception of value for them is much higher with truck mounted steam cleaning.

Why? because you clean everything with water!, doesnt have to be 600psi and hydro force pressure washing

but they like to see stuff being removed out of the house not into a pad, with a medium soiled house its easy to impress with VLM but when talking about removing microscopic contaminants, hard sell


I know VLM sanitizes, I know its a great method. Just saying why imo you will find many people in cleaner homes not wanting VLM

My experience is inline with yours. and the reason why I switched to a TM after 4 years of VLM only. You have to sell and justify VLM way more often then a TM.

andy had the transformation from Padden Mcfadden to Techno Mcfadden

sorry guys it just one day and he changed sides for ever

Freedom Giveaway Winner, goes from TM to Trinity

Just wanted to let you know this. I won your Freedom machine almost 2 months ago on the web and I haven’t used my truck mount since.

31 years with steam and I’m changing all my customers to encap and everyone loves it. I’ve made new a few carpets I do that have been beyond making look very clean. I’ve done them a few times before. One customer is now having me do their company’s carpet because of this.

Tom Thompson

Not that it's any of my business but...
Odin needs to find something to sell to encap guys and
Geurkink needs something to sell to hwe guys.
Then they wouldn't come across so stoopit closed minded.   

Like BonnetPro guy, an encap guy, at least sells his version of Yardstix.
And Mytee's POG product line, at least they try and sell the tm on wheels concept.
Me, I added some liquid car wax to my hwe prespray and wala, I'm an encap salesman. Pure Genius right
It wasn't hard.    Happy to do it either way for you mam.  
Terry, you just need to get you some Turtle wax for under your skis and Geurkink you just need to put a wand and a shopvac on your van for a week.    It'll be like a light coming on.

Worked with porty and Tm for years, and sell to HWe guys everyday, still trying to figure out your point.

"Worked with porty and Tm for years, and sell to HWe guys everyday, still trying to figure out your point."

Seriously?
I guess I question yours then.
When have ever promoted hwe?
If so, I missed it.
Your testimonial above is a guy saying no hwe for me ever again, correct?
Or am I reading that wrong too?

My point is, as far as I knew, you are 1000% encap, pacap, VLM, or whatever you call it, and 0% HWE.
Am I wrong?
If so, show me some posts to prove it. OK?

LOL, I get it, be politically correct and tell people something contrary to what you have experienced in order to have your approval?
I have been at this 41 years Joe, used about everything out there, rotaries, porties, tm, crb's etc ,but I prefer encapping to ALL the  others.. so "NOW" I post a simple testimonial from a customer who won a machine, and you are concerned I am not HWE enough? LOL
I have used OP longer than anyone else on the planet, and know how to use it well, now that I developed a machine to make it even easier and better you want me to promote HWE too? Seriously?

I would trust people would promote what they believe in, and nothing else.

OK I get it.
You don't believe in hwe.
WoW.

I just sold VT14 wands to a couple of guys who were all excited about the Trinity they use to scrub in there prespray.
Seems you could promote it that way.

How about post hwe post padding?

How about NOT promoting it as standalone?

Just sayin.

First off Joe, let me ask you, how do you know what the method is capable of?

How much experience do you have with Trinities?

I am not against hwe at all, many of  my users use both... but you give your opinion on me not
promoting it as stand alone, so YOU are right and so many of the guys who actually USE the Trinities are wrong?

I put up the Trinity against any method, and do it publicly yet YOU say don't promote it as stand alone when YOU don't even know what it does?

Hummm, confusing!

I don't care what people use, but I also don't care to feed people a line so JOE is happy with me.

Well I think someone is missing the point. Like I have a TM that operates with high pressure, so why would I use it to only clean carpet?  If it can make money doing other things/services then why not promote that too. 

Sometimes you guys look to defend your own ideas and miss other opportunities that are available.

I'm a huge VLM proponent, but no way will HWE ever go away.

It's like comparing cars with trucks. Technically, both will get you from A to B, but not if you're needing to move rocks from A to B. If all you need is transportation, obviously the car is the much more efficient option.

Cleaners argue over method. Customers just want clean carpet.

I'm almost willing to call a guy a liar who says the customer asks a bunch if method questions before getting the job. I have NEVER been asked any method questions. It's Dry time? Cost? Stain?

Klode sak general has been breathing Argosheen for the past years and well is just not right in the hed!

i wouldn't want to be without BOTH

I have used both " top dogs " in the vlm/hwe world

realclean- chemdry and portable hacks have done allot of damage to the market up here. Burned allot of people. Honestly, at least 10% ask what I used to clean. Its great to say all methods, except von schroodler, Because hey ... I have standards LOL

trinity IS one heck of a pre scrub machine

We do get customers asking about method,   not all the time but more than a few times.

Most want to "make sure"  its truck mounted steam.      The reason is there is a lot of cold water portable companies that dont care at all about dry times around here,   they come and go left and right

There is also a lot of "start your own business for 3 grand"  guys with a floor buffer,  some solution,  and a tub of cedar shavings      

Its kinda stupid I know,   but TM sets you apart from both.

It all comes down to how much breath do you have in you?      Do you want to defend your method all day everyday?    Take each customer who has had years and years of D A Burns quality steam cleaning paying like 70 cents a sq ft  and try and convince them that a floor buffer is a better job?   have fun

(its not a floor buffer I know,   this is not meant to offend anyone... I love op machines they kick ass,   but this is the reality of a customers mind)

vlm changed everything for us when we realized how good it can be, and how crappy cold water portable extraction is...

but I still cannot justify encap on furniture, minus a very few select fabrics.... with a sapphire and a small TM our furniture is dry in 30minutes so it is low moisture imo

I have spoke with so many VLM guys who have forsaken VLM in favor of a TM.  

And lots of TM guys who tried to make the switch to VLM and found it seriously lacking as a stand alone.

So it go's both ways.    As for me ,  I say VLM is a good compliment to a sound HWE system but no way is it a replacement.


BTW john,    let me just ask,  

what TM did you operate  "for years"  ?   I have followed the boards for quite sometime,  and never heard mention of "years of experience with a TM".

Only thing I remember was a mention about some, ancient,  sub par ETM machine . And it was an underperformer so after a short time , you turned it in to a shop vac.

Hardy makes for "years of experience with a TM"  Correct me if I'm wrong.

This is an interesting debate.

The only cleaners that I have seen convert from TM to all VLM were the lazy cleaners who were dreaming of a short cut to getting paid. Most of them are scrub and run guys and not a true VLM cleaner in my view.

There is a place for all cleaning methods and if the person doing the cleaning takes pride in his work, all methods will deliver great results. Each one has strength / weaknesses that make them more useful in certain arenas and thus each method should be available and used when appropriate.

I don't see it as a "one method only" world...at least not around here.

"There is a place for all cleaning methods and if the person doing the cleaning takes pride in his work, all methods will deliver great results."

I agree in general. However , (trust me) Many, many times in a residential setting VLM can not work. Ever try cleaning dried cat poo with an OP? ever tried responding to an emergency call were someone spilled paint on the carpet, and you had to try to clean the paint with OP?

Ever had a call where the man of the house cracked his head while working out side then walked in the house and bleed all over the carpet? Try cleaning that with OP. Or the once in a while call where the dog got sick and had a case of the runs on the carpet. Ever tried cleaning that with OP?

Or the job that has gum all over and ink spots, you will be on your hands and knees for an hour , if all you have is OP.

Traffic lane gray? lean how to explain it real well, cause many more jobs will have it when all you have is OP.

Of course their is the vomit, and heavy soil jobs , pop corn oil spills, over flowed sinks , water floods etc.

Some situations you just can not do well with VLM , no matter how dedicated you are. VLM only is fine if you get the right kind of jobs, just be prepared to refer about 20 percent of your calls to your friend with a TM.

so you have one moron or VLM poster child get himself way over his head with a Vortex and lease or bank payments then drinks the holy water and is converted.

Andy Mc, you sound like me about 5 years ago. Most of the situations you mentioned can be handled effectively with padcapping. For isolated areas, such as major spills, paint, urine, etc., a powerful wet/dry and claw work beautifully.

VLM relies on chemistry more than HWE, but once the chemistry is nailed down, you've got yourself a very nice toolbox.

One area where VLM is vastly inferior is heavy grease loads. But its not inferior due to lack of water, its because of lack of heat.

You guys out west, where you're running outta water, should embrace VLM. It may save your job once the government starts taxing water consumption.

Hey every monday night we are having hwe guys who went totally over to trinity, listen to them, their experience,not second hand bs.

Well Real clean, If your experience differs from mine, that's cool. Just know that I have done (attempted) all the above situations with OP, so I know what it's limits are. As I look back on it now , I feel embarrassed about what I ""thought" OP was capable of.

Let me clear the air just a bit, I have never, said OP wasn't a valid method, but not to recognize it's limits is borderline delusional (IMO)

I also find it funny, that when ever someone points out it's limits, they basically get dismissed as being some kind of crazy hater (by the VLM die hard crowd) That's why most of the VLM die hard crowd, stick to the security of the VLM boards where any contrary opinions are not tolerated.

John, can you clear this up for me?? are you saying that a guy who has had the opposite experience (forsaken VLM in favor of a TM) is second hand BS? Or I'm I misunderstanding something?

Your giving off the vibe, that only opinions that you consider valid, are those that are inline with yours. If you feel my opinions are wrong that is totally cool. (I can take it)

But to dismiss someone as being full of BS , just because they conflict with your world view is a little childish. But then again maybe I'm misunderstanding your above post?

BTW you never cleared up the confusion about your statement "years of experience with a TM" What TM did you operate for "years" ???