Re: VLM will change the way you clean

by Cannon100 Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:07 pm

carpetdaddy wrote:Great looking results. I have used similar process on very rare occasions usually as a quick touch-up between regular cleaning and 50% of the time on a commercial wedding reception hall account that we do monthly. It is easier, less expensive, and quicker. However, it is just a surface cleaning and you are leaving a lot of soil in the base of the carpet. The only way I would be comfortable using it on a regular basis is if we explained & offered it to the customers as a reduced price option (which people renting apartments/house might opt for the lower price option). Or, as part of an overall regular interval ongoing maintenance program. It is a great tool to have in your arsenal.

no need to lower your price you are still giving them an amazing cleaning if it is done the right way, and your client will love the fact of the carpet being dry less then hr or so

by kevinj6121 Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:01 pm

Ok, some one tell me what to do, want to try VLM, i have a 175 with solution tank and carpet brush, also have the pad driver for the 175, also have a CRB that i am adding a spray jet to that will connect to an elrctric 3 gallon sprayer so that i a can spray solution and use CRB at same time. I'm guessing run the CRB 1st to spray chem and scrub. then follow up with the 175 for removing soil. But don't know what kind of pads or bonnets to use. Some help please.

by Pete@TCC Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:12 am

In recent years I have been hwe almost 100%. 4 months ago I got another 175 scrubber with shampoo tank and started up encap again. Its funny how I actually pull out the encapper around 4 out of 5 jobs. When done right it does a super job, dries quicker, costs less and therefore higher profit margins. I have no issues with charging the same because I know the job is as good or better than my competitors provide. If I dont think it will do that, then thats when I set up the hwe. I often ask the customer if they prefer steam or loww moisture. Sometimes they ask what is better, I explain for there situation both will do an excellent job, although VLM will dry faster and that usually seals the deal.

by Andy Mc Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:27 am

If it wern't for dog pee, cat poo, child vomit, ink spots, gum spots, heavy soiled carpets, and strange looks from doubting customers I would still be 100 % VLM.

Here is a funy story, I got a call from a realter company looking for a last minute cleaning (their regular guy couldn't make it)

I took the job , they left the door open and I cleaned it with OP. Droped the bill off at the office. the next day the owner called me and told me that was the best cleaning results she had ever seen and will be giving me all their work from now on.

I did work for them for about a year, (always empties) so they never saw how I was cleaning.

One day they call and ask me to clean the office, so I show up with my challenger OP and start cleaning. I notice the owner looking at me funny. She asked me about the green "buffer" wanted to know if that's they way I was cleaning the houses. I told her all about the greatness of VLM.

That day on I never heard from them again. lol

It's nice to offer it and it works on the right situation, but going 100 vlm is fighting an up hill battle on customer perception, if you have the energy to fight that battle then go for it.

I found it much easier to just buy a TM and be done with it.

by Joe Bristor Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:21 am

totally understand Andy.
the perception thing is a biggie.
just for contrast though, I had exactly the opposite experience. I've told the story but here goes again....
started with a TM, worked 16 years exclusively with it, started selling stuff and cleaning less...the TM sat in the driveway and it got frustrating trying to keep it working smoothly (they don't like sitting). So I went to a portable and damn near put myself outa biz thinking it should clean like a tm. Gradually got into encap and like you say, the ones who didn't see me working, they loved it, coming home to dry carpet. The ones who saw it weren't happy not seeing the wand and the rake and the noisy machine. But they gave me benefit of doubt and all was good. Commercially it was a big improvement in results. Using them together as needed was huge.
Anybody didn't like it, I'd go way out of my way to explain it. It's been said before, I think it was Charlie... it gets to be more hassle than it's worth having to justify it, witness both you guys going to TMs. But you still gotta do it IMO.
If you don't you're no better than your competition.
I think the answer is having both, knowing when to use either or both AND taking the time to explain, with Passion, that they need both, and that the other guys aren't willing to make the same effort. This gets them to trust your judgment.
If they don't like you after the time you spend explaining it then F-em, they don't deserve you anyhow.
Just remember, most your competition doesn't care much about doing a good job with either method, much less carry both, much less teach both.
You show up with both, and take time to show them you know what's best for them... the good ones will get it. An OO just needs a few of these to stay busy.
Feed the grass baby.

by milspec6 Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:40 am

Joe Bristor wrote:totally understand Andy.
the perception thing is a biggie.
just for contrast though, I had exactly the opposite experience. I've told the story but here goes again....
started with a TM, worked 16 years exclusively with it, started selling stuff and cleaning less...the TM started sat in the driveway and got frustrating trying to keep it working smoothly (they don't like sitting). So I went to a portable and damn near put myself outa biz thinking it should clean like a tm. Gradually got into encap and like you say, the ones who didn't see me working, they loved it, coming home to dry carpet. The ones who saw it weren't happy not seeing the wand and the rake and the noisy machine. But they gave me benefit of doubt and all was good. Commercially it was a big improvement in results. Using them together as needed was huge.
Anybody didn't like it, I'd go way out of my way to explain it. It's been said before, I think it was Charlie... it gets to be more hassle than it's worth having to justify it, witness both you guys going to TMs. But you still gotta do it IMO. If you don't you're no better than your competition.
I think the answer is having both, knowing when to use either or both AND taking the time to explain, with Passion, that they need both, and the other guys aren't willing to make the same effort, this gets them to trust your judgment. If they don't like you after the time you spend explaining then F-em, they don't deserve you anyhow.

Just remember, most your competition doesn't care much about doing a good job with either method.
You show up with both, and take time to show them you know what's best for them... the good ones will get it. An OO just needs a few of those and to stay busy.
Feed the grass baby.

Exactly!!

by Ken Raddon Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:06 am

I do both. I bought a John G. machine Easy Glide and it never worked any better than my Mytee 175 (and yes it is the only one to buy if you can't buy a bonnet pro machine). Now I do one or the other depending on circumstances.

I need to try them ribbed pads. Maybe I'll order some right now...

by milspec6 Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:28 am

That Mytee 175 is a very good machine. I used one for a stone job a year ago, really good torque on that model.

by Pablos Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:48 pm

I am with Andy Mc in this one 100%. Don't get me wrong, you can achieve great results with VLM but only under specific circumstances. Very good method for berbers and CGD, not suitable for nasty residential with pee, poo, vomiting, blood etc. IMHO if you want to go serious with this system get yourself and OP machine (orbital padding), day and night with a rotary 175. In generally, big buck dollars comes to us when we have a residential customer calling us desperate because there is a huge amount of urine, poo, vomiting or another kind of organic spot in their carpet, and them merry christmas: DEODORAIZER, STEAM CLEAN and PROTECTOR to avoid happen again, all this combo for me can be done only with HWE.
This is the rule for me after several years using both methods, VLM=Commercial or CGD or some berbers, all the rest HWE.

by Davey Cracker Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:14 pm

Pablos wrote:I am with Andy Mc in this one 100%. Don't get me wrong, you can achieve great results with VLM but only under specific circumstances. Very good method for berbers and CGD, not suitable for nasty residential with pee, poo, vomiting, blood etc. IMHO if you want to go serious with this system get yourself and OP machine (orbital padding), day and night with a rotary 175. In generally, big buck dollars comes to us when we have a residential customer calling us desperate because there is a huge amount of urine, poo, vomiting or another kind of organic spot in their carpet, and them merry christmas: DEODORAIZER, STEAM CLEAN and PROTECTOR to avoid happen again, all this combo for me can be done only with HWE.
This is the rule for me after several years using both methods, VLM=Commercial or CGD or some berbers, all the rest HWE.

I'm wondering what "big buck dollars" is to you?......just so I can put it into perspective.

by Pablos Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:12 pm

Jajajaja, spainenglish slang (plata, guita,moca, verde, tela, luca, etc) meaning big money. Sorry for my poor english vocabulary. Good catch there.

by Davey Cracker Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:03 pm

"Good Answer"!! "Good Answer"!! laughing

by kevinj6121 Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:47 pm

Lots of posts after my question but no one answered my question..Ok, some one tell me what to do, want to try VLM, i have a 175 with solution tank and carpet brush, also have the pad driver for the 175, also have a CRB that i am adding a spray jet to that will connect to an elrctric 3 gallon sprayer so that i a can spray solution and use CRB at same time. I'm guessing run the CRB 1st to spray chem and scrub. then follow up with the 175 for removing soil. But don't know what kind of pads or bonnets to use. Some help please.

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by Joe Bristor Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:56 pm

Kevin, just get on the phone with a few of these guys like Kenny and Charlie and Andy Past-Padden McFadden.

by Andy Mc Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 pm

Kevin, you got it figured right, run the crb, pre scrub the heck out of the carpet, then 175 with cotton bonnets, http://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=AC85

you can find these pads for about half the price as the link above, just do some searching. I can't remember were I got mine last, Smile

Get some fiberplus pads from excellent supply, to scrub the berbers, and for commercial encaping and you are set.

The mico fiber pads from diretmopsales (the ones with scrub strips) , are a good in-between pad, a little absorption, and a little scrubbing , nice to have too. they have the best price on these pads as far as I know.

by Ken Raddon Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:08 pm

To answer your question...

You're on the right track. Spaying down a solution and then agitating it with either a crb or a 175. As for pads to absorb the loosened soil straight, thick cotton pads will do the best job. However they do not last as long as the cotton poly blend pads but get a half dozen straight cotton and half dozen blends and you'll know which you prefer after you do five or six jobs with them.

As for prescrubbing the brushes on a crb are a little different from brand to brand but fortunately in floor pads they are quite similar from brand to brand. Or at least they are in the aggression levels which are determined by color. White being the least aggressive moving to black being the most aggressive.

I scrub with fiber plus pads. They seem to hold up better that either white or red floor pads and are about the aggression level of red pads. I like them because they don't shed. I am reading up on the rubber bonded pads and I am going to try them next. But I suggest you start with white pads or if you can find fiber plus pads start with them to prescrub and cotton to absorb.

If I was in the market for cotton pads I would get them from Bonnet Pro if that helps at all.

by kevinj6121 Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:13 pm

well I just ordered the sample pack from Bonnet pro 2 each of ProCotton –ProCotton Sky –ProCotton Blend also ordered some directmopsales bonnets i got GREY MICROFIBER BONNET W/ SCRUB STRIP and some BLUE MICROFIBER LOOP PILE CARPET BONNET. total of 12, guess i'll play around and experiment and see which work the best with the 175 rotary.

by Joe Bristor Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:44 pm

"...i'll play around and experiment..."

there ya go.

Also forgot about REALCLEAN - he knows all this stuff too.

by REALCLEAN Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:19 pm

Kevin

From my experience, microfiber is the way to go. Cotton is ok but doesn't extract as much soil as microfiber.

On residential jobs, that aren't the real nasties, you can do a really good job with just the microfiber with scrub strips, no need to pull out the CRB except to post groom.

Instead of paying for Fiber Plus pads, go to powrflite and order the Image Beige pad. They're great for CGD and Berber.

Also, don't over wet the carpet, more is not necessarily better. It referred to as low moisture for a reason.

by Rainbow Rider Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:25 pm

I have some concerns raised by this discussion. Number one is some carpet manufacturers will void the warranty if it is bonnet cleaned. Number two: Some require only hot water extraction to maintain the warranty. Number three: Having to schedule another service call to do a dry vacuum would seriously add to the total time involved. In some cases a thorough hot water extraction followed by grooming the carpet would actually take less time and produce superior results. I use a dry bonnet on some jobs where the carpet is so thread bare, hot water extraction only creates a puddle.

by Davey Cracker Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:42 pm

There's no reason you have to make a return trip to post vacuum, IMO.

Just tell the customer to vacuum as they normally do, or vacuum the day after you have cleaned.

by Mo Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:08 pm

REALCLEAN wrote:Kevin

From my experience, microfiber is the way to go. Cotton is ok but doesn't extract as much soil as microfiber.

On residential jobs, that aren't the real nasties, you can do a really good job with just the microfiber with scrub strips, no need to pull out the CRB except to post groom.

Instead of paying for Fiber Plus pads, go to powrflite and order the Image Beige pad. They're great for CGD and Berber.

Also, don't over wet the carpet, more is not necessarily better. It referred to as low moisture for a reason.

I believe a cotton is more absorbent than microfiber. A natural fiber is more absorbent than a synthetic. Cotton is also more aggressive than microfiber.

by REALCLEAN Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:25 pm

Microfiber versus Cotton & Paper
What is microfiber and why does it out perform cotton & paper towel?
Polyester and polyamide are very fine threads which create the high quality microfiber towels we use today. Described to be hundred times thinner than a single strand of human hair and ten times finer than silk; microfibers are extremely fine compared to that of a cotton strand. Polyester is a lyophillic polymer or has affinity to oil that allows oil to cling directly to the fibers fast. On the other hand, water also easily adheres to microfiber since it is hydrophilic. Microfiber works well in storing dirt and dust at the same time, absorbs water tremendously even up to seven times or 600% its weight in liquids, dirt and other elements. Dirt particles cling, and are attracted to the finely wedged shaped fibers of microfiber, where as a cotton towel only pushes dirt and dust from one place or another. Such great characteristics allow microfiber towels to quickly remove dirt and leave surfaces completely clean.
Microfiber out performs cotton because of its admirable polyester and polyamide fibers that are strong and ensure durability. It's resistance to stretching and shrinking that guarantees shape retention. Other than that, it is also wrinkle, mildew, abrasion resistant due to its highly elasticity. Moreover, it is resistant to most chemicals, retains heat-set pleats and crease, and is easily washed even only with clear water or mild soapy water. In comparison to cotton, a microfiber will absorb 98% moisture, while cotton can only absorb at best 70%.

by Davey Cracker Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:29 pm

Mo wrote:
REALCLEAN wrote:Kevin

From my experience, microfiber is the way to go. Cotton is ok but doesn't extract as much soil as microfiber.

On residential jobs, that aren't the real nasties, you can do a really good job with just the microfiber with scrub strips, no need to pull out the CRB except to post groom.

Instead of paying for Fiber Plus pads, go to powrflite and order the Image Beige pad. They're great for CGD and Berber.

Also, don't over wet the carpet, more is not necessarily better. It referred to as low moisture for a reason.

I believe a cotton is more absorbent than microfiber. A natural fiber is more absorbent than a synthetic.

That's always been my experience, but not necessarily with bonnets. Just in general, Natural fibers are more absorbent than man-made.

by REALCLEAN Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:03 pm

Natural fibers have been proven to be inferior to synthetics in absorption. There's not really a debate. Not sure what experience confuses this.

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