VLM will change the way you clean

Kind of like a shami is more absorbent than a cotton towel when you wash your car?

Do a test for us Real Clean use both and wring them out in separate bucket to see which one is darker.

So a microfiber pad is more aggressive on carpet than cotton?

REALCLEAN wrote:Natural fibers have been proven to be inferior to synthetics in absorption.  There's not really a debate.  Not sure what experience confuses this.

Try to sink an Olefin carpet fiber in a cup of water.  That's what I'm talking about.

And lika sez, I really don't personally have much to compare when it comes to bonnets, just diff fibers in general.

Mo wrote:Kind of like a shami is more absorbent than a cotton towel when you wash your car?

Do a test for us Real Clean use both and wring them out in separate bucket to see which one is darker.

So a microfiber pad is more aggressive on carpet than cotton?

Not sure about the purpose of the "darker" experiment.

As far as which is more aggressive, are you synonymously using aggressive with abrasive? The more abrasive, the less absorbitive. Cotton can be more abrasive, it just depends on how it's woven.

As far as aggressive though, depends on the situation. For example, wipe the screen of your smartphone with a dry cotton towel. It's smears the smudges, removing very little. Then wipe the screen with a dry microfiber towel. It comes comes clean. In that setting the microfiber is much more aggressive even though it's less abrasive.

Microfiber wants to bond with oil. Cotton does not. In a commercial setting that's why microfiber bonnets are much more aggressive than cotton because they can remove oils from olefin that cotton can not. Olefin loves oil, microfiber craves it.

On CGD, it can accurately be stated that microfiber is more aggressive than cotton even though cotton may be more abrasive.

Mods to my SprayBorg.

Cotton is the king at pulling soil, there is no debate about this among educated padders

I know several guys who run micro fibers , but when they get something tuff they follow up with a cotton or cotton blend (glads, superzorbs ect.) to pull that extra soil.

In my own 7 years of padding experience I find it to be true as well. Same applies with a 175, if you want the best soil removal Cotton is the king.

Of course any one is free to disagree,

I second what Andy said, "Anyone is free to disagree"

Andy Mc wrote:Cotton is the king at pulling soil,  there is no debate  about this among educatedpadders

I know several guys who run micro fibers ,  but when they get something tuff    they follow up with a cotton or cotton blend  (glads, superzorbs ect.) to pull that extra soil.

In my own 7 years of padding experience I find it to be true as well.   Same applies with a  175,  if you want the best soil removal   Cotton is the king.

Of course any one is free to disagree,  

Define the bold please.

Real Clean,

What I meant about the darker experiment is this.

You clean a row of carpet one side with micro fiber and one with cotton. Then you take two 5 gallon buckest fill each one with 1 gallon of water and dunk each pad in its own bucket and ring each pad. The bucket with the darker water would be the pad that extracted the most soil??

No mo, that would be the pad that released the most in to the water. Cotton wont release dirt as easy as microfiber.

The real world test is to pre spay a soil releasing pre spray (no encap) run a cotton on a heavy soiled area , then right next to it run a micro,

You will end up running another cotton over the micro side. Less soil loads wont be as noticeable, When using encap , extreme soil removal is not always needed for the carpet to look good.


Realclean , no definition needed. John G battled the micro fad for years as he favored cotton and cotton blends (glad pads) for better soil removal.

but went to micros with scrub strips for better agitation (hence encaping ability) and they hold up better under the trinity,

but not cause they pull more dirt.

Mo wrote:Real Clean,

What I meant about the darker experiment is this.

You clean a row of carpet one side with micro fiber and one with cotton. Then you take two 5 gallon buckest fill each one with 1 gallon of water and dunk each pad in its own bucket and ring each pad. The bucket with the darker water would be the pad that extracted the most soil??

Microfiber will always win. If the quality of both is comparable. A top quality cotton will be superior to a cheaply made microfiber, but all things equal, microfiber wins.

Especially in a bucket test. One of the greatest strengths of microfiber is that it fully releases dirt with not much effort. Cotton needs a bit more convincing, often with a detergent of some sort.

Microfiber, 350+ GSM, will hold 600+% of its weight. Cotton is around 350%.

Andy Mc wrote:No mo,  that would be the pad that released the most in to the water.   Cotton wont release dirt as easy as microfiber.

The real world test is to pre spay a soil releasing pre spray (no encap) run a cotton on a heavy soiled area , then right next to it run a micro,

You will end up  running another cotton over the micro side.  Less soil loads wont be as noticeable,    When using  encap ,   extreme soil removal  is not always needed for the carpet to look good.


Realclean  ,  no definition needed.     John G  battled the micro fad for years as he favored cotton and cotton blends  (glad pads)   for better soil removal.  

but went to micros  with scrub strips for better agitation (hence encaping ability)  and they hold up better under the trinity,

  but not cause they pull more dirt.

 

What I thought. Thanks.

Microfiber with scrub strips are extremely limited bonnets. If that what you guys are referring to as microfiber, than you're correct, they're inferior.

The quality of microfiber in those is 300 GSM max. Poor quality. The scrub strips are polyethylene and absorb 0%. Forty percent of the face on those pads absorb 0%.

A solid microfiber bonnet with a GSM above 350 will out clean any cotton pad ever made.

Judd can you provide a link the microfiber pads with the GSM above 350 that you're referring to? The only ones that I have run are those with scrub stripes and the solid baby blue ones

Well that explains the disagreement, you have a special pad ??

yes give the link , I will try them and let you know if your right

Starfiber is the best bonnet ever made. It's a solid 400+ GSM microfiber terry cloth.

Here's where I bought mine. http://www.swedeclean.com/scandinavia/crptclnr/microfibertools.html


I don't see them on his site. You can call and see if he still can get them. I've tried calling Starfiber with no success.

At some point, don't you have to stop and scratch your head; hmmmmmmmm........the entire cleaning industry has adopted microfiber as a superior product to terry cloth; hospitals, labs, clinics, schools, nursing homes, factories, etc. But, by god, I'm sticking with cotton in the carpet business!

These are a bit better than the directmopsales bonnets.

http://microfiber-products.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=78

Interesting RealClean

He just seems to show the same pads as what dms shows now?
http://www.swedeclean.com/scandinavia/microfiber/bonnetscom.html

I did send him a message so hopefully still available

CleanTech wrote:Interesting RealClean

He just seems to show the same pads as what dms shows now?
http://www.swedeclean.com/scandinavia/microfiber/bonnetscom.html

I did send him a message so hopefully still available

I've reached out to Starfiber several times. No response.

I've ordered several hundred different types of microfiber to attempt my own pad. I've got a great design. I just had no idea how expensive a patent is.

Once I get it finalized I'll send it to a few of you guys who seem pretty literate at vlm to try out.

Why Starfiber quit making them is perplexing for sure.

Andy Mc wrote:Well  that explains the disagreement,   you have a special pad ??

yes give the link ,  I will try them and let you know if your right

I don't have a "special" pad. Science doesn't lie. All things equal, microfiber outperforms cotton by a landslide. Take your best cotton bonnet, make 40% of it polypropylene, and it's inferior to the microfiber version.

Not sure what's a disagreement. Facts are facts. Of course, I've met people who sincerely believe earth is just 6000 years old. Lol! Some just like to ignore evidence. Nothing can be done about that except to giggle a little bit.

But this is the most volatile opinionated industry I've ever come across. That's good and bad.

lol this is not a fact, this is a matter of personal experience cleaning carpet, and personal opinion.

I find that cotton or glad pads pull more soil from carpet then any microfiber I have used, When I use micro fiber , I have to follow with a cotton in heavy soil areas to pull the extra soil to get them to look good , that is a fact.

NOW I have not used the particular pad your talking about, so I figure that might explain the disagreement.

and said I would try it to see about it. Maybe your right about that particular pad.

Science doesn't result in opinions.

You're talking about pads, I'm talking about fibers.

A 24 oz. lead hammer is superior to a 1 oz. steel hammer. That experience does not equate to lead being stronger than steel.

Your now twisting the topic, in an attempt to "win"

we are talking about carpet cleaning. and what pad pulls more soil,,

not the nature of fibers. Nor science.

Andy Mc wrote:Your now twisting the topic,  in an attempt to "win"  

we are talking about carpet cleaning. and what pad pulls more soil,,

 not the nature of fibers.  Nor science.      

Come on man, you're sounding silly. "Win"? Really? Someone is trying to "win"? That attitude belongs on TMF or Mikeys.

We're talking science. We're talking microfiber vs cotton. That's science. My experience is not science. Your experience is not science. Experience is the crutch of the uneducated. When someone can't do something, it can't be done, because, after all, I've been cleaning carpet for 40 years! Experience can be useful, but it's the most overrated indicator in the business.

For example, I've been running prochems and butlers since 1994. HWE only! Bonnet cleaning is a joke! I still believe that. But I used to believe that about encap. I didn't understand the science. A guy who had been cleaning carpet for one year proved me wrong. Here's a guy with 15 years of experience being taught and educated by a brand newbie with one year of experience.

"Cotton is more absorptive than microfiber" is a scientifically inaccurate statement. That's not an opinion. That's a proven fact. Microfiber will absorb 600+% of its weight. Cotton can't even come close to that.

After knowing that, common sense should kick in, and ask, "since that's true, why am I not seeing that? Maybe it's because I'm using a high quality, dense terry cloth cotton pad with 800% more material than the microfiber pad I'm comparing it to?"

"Cotton is more aggressive" is a scientifically ambiguous statement. What's the circumstances. Cause if grease or oil is involved, that's incorrect.

"Cotton is more abrasive than microfiber" is a scientifically accurate statement. Most people use the words aggressive and abrasive synonymously.

Obviously, our goal is clean carpet. We use the tools we have to accomplish that. If that means that our cotton pads perform better than our microfiber pads, than that's what we do. However, it's quite a stretch to think that the tools in our toolbox set a standard of truth for the industry. Almost always there's a better tool out there than what we're using.

Making stuff up , implying things I never said , nor argued against. all in an attempt to "win" .

If you actually read (or comprehended) my post on this matter you will see that you actually agree with what I've said.

and that I conceded that you may have a point on the particular pad that you mention.

Where we went from that to calling me a" flat earther" or a denier of science is beyond me.

I can only conclude that your intention is not the truth of honest discussion, but rather to pose as some one smarter then you actually are, you have no choice but to try and do this because you know your out gunned.

Any one that reads carefully the exchange you and I have had will agree with me. (unless they are part of the anti Andy agenda.)